Over the weekend eBay began removing auctions for certain craft beer brands. Most noticeably auctions for unopened bottles of Russian River, Cantillon, Lost Abbey and Hill Farmstead were ended. As of this posting a few new auctions have popped up, so it will be interesting to see if those are removed today. Bottle and growler auctions on eBay have been the subject of a growing debate in the past year. Many breweries have publicly issued statements denouncing what they believe is a “Black or Gray Market” for beer sales. On the flip side of that coin, buyers of these auctions have said eBay is the only way they can obtain some of these limited release beers.
Recently Hill Farmstead brewery in Vermont has seen its bottles become some of the most popular auctions on eBay. Shaun Hill who owns the brewery hasn’t let his opinion of Ebay beer/bottle auctions go unnoticed. Since it appears as though eBay has begun to honor the requests of the brewers who do not want their bottles on the auction site I wanted to get Shaun’s reactions to the news. I have contacted a few other breweries for reaction, but as of this posting I haven’t heard anything back. I will update this post as soon as I get a response.
ETF-First reactions/thoughts when you heard Hill Farmstead auctions were going to be removed?
Shaun- First reaction: Wow. Our voice was heard. Second: I wonder how much hate mail we are going to receive.
ETF-What bothered you the most about seeing Hill Farmstead auctions on eBay?
Shaun- The notion that our loyal customers, in some cases people that had driven many hours to purchase bottles of our beer, went home empty handed at the sole expense of illegal profiteering. It makes me worry about the future of the industry.
ETF- What other brewers/breweries did you work with to accomplish this goal?
Shaun- I didn’t accomplish this goal. It seems that it was largely Natalie Cilurzo (Russian River) that managed to get through to eBay. Many emails were exchanged with Jean Van Roy at Cantillon – who feels similarly about the issue. In fact, it is such a plague that Cantillon struggles with decisions as to whether or not to release beers from their brewery because such a large proportion of them would end up on the black market. Disheartening, right? That a brewer is discouraged from releasing his or her beer…
ETF- How long have you been working with eBay to have Hill Farmstead auctions removed?
Shaun- Several months.
ETF-Do you recall what bottle the highest $$$ auction was and how much it went for?
Shaun- I believe Mimosa and Damon each broke the 200$ barrier.
ETF- For those people who say “Shaun this was the only way I could get a bottle of your beer. I didn’t mind paying $100 for a bottle.”… what would you say to them?
Shaun- I would say: “well, for ___$, you could fly to Vermont, rent a car, and drive out to our brewery and have a first hand experience. In fact, we’d probably have shared a bottle of ___ with you…” There are many things in this world that aren’t “fair” – I don’t have health insurance here, but did in Denmark – and pay more in taxes here in the US than I did there… that doesn’t seem fair, does it?
ETF- In your opinion how does this make the craft beer world better?
Shaun- Unfortunately, it is only a minor and temporary betterment. There will be more after market websites for beer auctioning – sites with less buyer protection and less regulation. The determined consumer will find a way to acquire and taste – regardless of legality, expense, or condition of the product. It’s inevitable. In the final analysis, it is the unified voice of brewery opposition to such activity that is most symbolic: it is not merely Hill Farmstead – it is Russian River – it’s Cantillon – it’s Alpine – and many others… It’s a community of producers with integrity that care about their product…
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So why doesn’t Shaun auction the beers himself?
Because he doesn’t want to make people compete with one another monetarily to taste his beer?
People are already competing with each other because of availability. He’s mad that others are profiteering (albeit illegally) from his product because of the lack of availability. I see that as profits his business could be capturing, but isn’t because he is pricing below market value. More of an opportunity missed than a battle won.
Yes, I understand there is a fine balance they need to maintain with current customers and alienating them, but I just wanted to look at this from purely a dollars and cents business standpoint and make that argument.
I do not understand the argument that people CONSTANTLY make in this discussion about “this is a problem because he’s pricing below market value.”
So because there is some crazy person out there with tons of disposal income who is willing to spend $200 to acquire a rare bottle, all of Hill Farmstead’s beers should be much more expensive?
If you ask this guy why he’s running this business, “making as much money as I can” is not going to be his answer. Every time that you make the assumption that they should operate in the way that makes the most economic sense, you’re entirely missing the point that the guy you’re talking about isn’t even a businessman. He’s an artist. You can WANT him to be sensible, but I’m thankful for the fact that he’s not.
It’s absolutely illegal for a brewer to sell their beer on eBay. The brewer could have all their licenses taken away. It’s absolutely illegal for anyone to sell beer on eBay, but only a stupid brewer would sell their beer on eBay.
Am I wrong to assume that to sell an alcoholic beverage such as beer you need to be taxed and licensed? If not, I was a home brewer. Why couldn’t I sell my home brew on eBay?
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Here is The loophole;
· The value of the item is in the collectible container, not its contents.**
· The container has not been opened and any incidental contents are not intended for consumption.
So technically you could sell bottles that incedently have homebrew in them.
No, they couldn’t get a plane ticket, hotel, and car rental rental for $100. How absurd.
So, why is Shaun not okay with this, but okay with illegally making kegs of his beer available in markets that he has no distribution rights or licensing in? I guess it’s okay to break the law when the brewer is doing it.
Which markets are you talking about? I’ve had Hill in DC. DC has some unique laws here. It is not illegal to drive kegs to DC and sell them. We legally get Russian River, Oxbow, Hill Farmstead, and used to get New Belgium before they distributed here.
Florida and Iowa for starters.
Hill Farmstead has a distribution agreement in Florida. Nothing illegal.
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While I appreciate the brewer who wants to enable conditions for consumers to purchase their products at a reasonable price while maintaining quality control, I would like to remind him/her that it is the free market that enables them to do what they do.
I recognize that my previous statement is easy to make and would love to hear more from the brewers. That being said, I have a desire to sample many different expressions of beer that are unavailable to me due to my location (Chicago).
Living here, I have zero local access to Russian River products. Luckily for me, friends of mine live in SF and are happy to send bottles to me. Without these connections I would consider bidding on a bottle from time to time. My preference is for profits to end up with the brewer, not a middle person.
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